Rant on Relativism

Heh, I guess I'm a relativist. I don't believe in an absolute set of morals which applies to everyone, because everyone is different. Everyone has different histories, environments, circumstances, families, influences, brain chemistry, thought processes, etc in their lives that all affect who they are. I am for some reason under the impression that there is an exception to pretty much everything (even this very statement). But enough about my whacked out ideas, since probably no one wants to hear/agrees with them...I don't even have them all set for myself. (I think someday I'm going to be one of those people who writes endless prologues to books...)

on 22.01.04 at 22:52:43, justified wrote:

if right and wrong are realitive then how can there even be truth 2+2=4 it always = 4 that is an absolute truth cannot contradict itself if i believe one thing to be true and you believe the opposite how could we both be right not believing in an absolute how can you say that murder is wrong what makes you the authorithy if there is nothing higher than us than what would even be the point in doing good so in that logic you cannot talk about what is right and what is wrong because they cease to exist because if some believes something to be true that you dont no one could ever tell me that im wrong what would make the government so right you see there must be absolutes something as to which we are held acountable to, to base what is right and wrong off of what is right and true will always be that it doesnt change

on 23.01.04 at 16:36:29, justified wrote:

religion is defined as "A personal or institutionalized system grounded in such belief and worship" once you hold something, even such as math, above anything else, you are in theory worshiping it. Therefore, Math is a religion. You can't be a relativist and "believe" in Math, because math will always have its absolutes, because 2+2 will always equal 4. If we dont need, as you said, something to base right and wrong on, then who has any say on what either one is? What would give any man the right to tell any one what is and is not exceptable? In turn, government and police officers are upholding nothing. Because there veiws may not be my views so why should i be held responsible for their set of beliefs. Okay so in your world we are our own authority, so in fact you are your own absolute truth. To end this, if there were no absolutes, there would be total chaos. The mear fact that we have a sense of right and wrong, proves we have a foundation based on an absolute.

You seem to be saying that without a god to serve, there is no point in doing any good, no point in helping out those in need or aiding a just cause? Excuse me, but what the hell is with that? Even if a standard "right" and "wrong" do not exist universally, there are a general consensuses with which *most* people agree on, such as killing for no reason is wrong, or stealing is wrong. But there *are* always exceptions, such as self defense, or stealing food because you've lost your job, all your money, and been put out on the street and had no food for you or your kids for over a week...Do you think that Jean Val Jean was wrong by stealing a loaf of bread in Les Miserables? The corrupt French government was under the impression that this was such a horrible crime, so sent him to prison for many years. Even though it's just a story, things like this did and still do happen. The government and law enforcement *are not* absolute, as no human ideal in the nature of "right" and "wrong" can be entirely full-proof; governmental agencies are simply a guide as to what a whole damn lot of people seem to think things should go, in the case of a good government such as our own (for the most part). And as Colliohn said, even if you don't agree with everything the government enforces, we are far better off for ourselves and the others around us to respect and tolerate the laws, as they are (generally) a reflection of the majority of society, and it is better all around for the good of the whole...keep in mind I am not discussing corrupt, fully-biased dictatorships or anything. It's all about tolerance, finding a middleground, a happy medium if you will, between what one believes and what the law says, in order for there to be relative peace. Though it may seem to me sometimes that the world is in complete, utter chaos, there really is an amazing amount of order for what it's worth. If you ask me, math (and methodical science for that matter though not everything after this applies to science, with all this "Creationism vs Evolution" and whatnot) is a far better religion than any other I've heard of, since pretty much NO ONE denies it. That's why most people don't really consider it a religion, along with the fact that no one is worshipping anything really...unless you have a shrine to the number 2 somewhere, or a Temple to Pi...then you're just a little off in my opinion...Math is a standard, abstract concept which helps bring order to our complicated, physical lives. One can't really prove that the precise abstract concept of 2 plus the precise abstract concept of 2 always equals the precise abstract concept of 4. We have faith that that is correct, because we have yet to discover anything to the contrary. It is generally accepted here, such as the laws of physics, because we have physical evidence of them. Gravity of an object of larger mass pulls and object of smaller mass towards it. If you put together 2 apples with 2 apples, you have what we call four apples. You can't deny that at our current level of awareness, but who is to say that 2 + 2 = 5 is impossible? People used to say it was impossible that the world could be round! There are so many things that we are yet to comprehend, or to even discover, so really, nothing is absolute, because our knowledge is not infinite. Now I know you're thinking "Oh, but God knows everything, he told us so and I believe him." Why don't I believe in a "god" persay anymore? Because the Christian God told us. Because Alla told us. Because the Goddess told us. Because Confucious say. Because there are so many damn religions, and they're *all* telling us things, and not all of them concur, and it's extremely difficult for me to believe that only one of them is possibly correct. There are just too many things we don't understand and need to find reasons for, so we create reasons to hold us over until we figure things out. That's how I stand now, and it'll take a real miracle showing itself to me to budge me from that position.


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